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Salem

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Salem last won the day on August 25 2017

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About Salem

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    transparent and lies in a gutter

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  1. idk if you think I have a chip on the block regarding you in particular or just in general. You might be right on the latter. I'm not going to pretend I'm not one bitter motherfucker. On you, no, I like you as a person, I think you're smart, and if I didn't think that, I'd just call you a fucking idiot and not go into any of this shit. I'm not trying to cut you down, fwiw. I'm genuinely trying to point out that, well, Look. You're STILL telling me that economic anxiety played the biggest role in Trump's win. I'm not sure what kind of mental gymnastics you're doing that's allowing you to cling to your bizarre and factually incorrect worldview at this point. Clearly I made too many assumptions about your beliefs in my previous post, and I could be wrong again: I have a feeling that you might tell me that economic anxiety and racial resentment are two peas in a pod. I guess they are if you're white. I do know that if I'm having the shit kicked out of me by the economy, I should probably avoid voting for the millionaire New York landowner on the republican ticket. The tax bill isn't a surprise to anybody, least of all the people who voted for him. The only way you could think differently is if, yes, you infantilise the people that voted for this and claim they didn't know. Of course they knew, come on. You seem to view everything through an idealogical lens, which is normally fine because you have an all-encompassing philosophy. But it's not all-all-encompassing. Leave room to be wrong. Which you are. You're wrong. And you can either adjust your worldview or you can corncob yourself to oblivion. You don't have to explain the plumber to me, Ethan. You can have your plumber. I never mentioned him before that post, but I used him primarily to highlight the difference between your lived experience and mine, despite the fact that we're both working class and living in shitty neighbourhoods. Solidarity is something you can find with him, great. You know why I can't have that conversation with him. In my world, the white working class are both victims and oppressors. That's the point I was trying to make there. "Go read some theory" -> Bit condescending. I've self-identified as a socialist all my life and a Marxist since my early twenties. I know what you're getting at most of the time, although I will admit I genuinely misunderstood your viewpoint RE: capitalism & racism, for which I apologise. (but on the other hand, actually, you haven't been as clear on this point in the past as you were just now). But I can look at things systemically. I can look at things materially. But I don't believe it is always appropriate to do so. For instance, "So, uh, when I was a kid my dad raped me" "Well, you know I have a theory about that," NOT THAT I'M SAYING YOU'VE DONE THAT But really, there are times when it's just not, like, it's insensitive, at best. If you care to know where I stand on these things - I don't believe people can be analysed like schools of fish or leaves being blown by wind. We are fundamentally irrational and unpredictable, which has been an ongoing problem for economic theorists in particular. There is an allure to a kind of blunt mechanical description of human history, of how systems came to be, why they came to be, and how those systems eventually became cages for the people who created them. As a generally nerdy person, I like neatness. But, and I know this is hard to believe from someone who just flat out claimed you were wrong: There's much more uncertainty, messiness and general chaos in the way I view the world. PS, tell your black friends I said hi. PPS, have you heard Pharrel's theory on being new-black, deep shit. PPPS, my favourite black political commentator is Stacey Dash.
  2. Riverdale

    Why did I read your username as Mary Plopins.
  3. Callout culture lmao There's a reason I only referred to Magnets by name, Ethan. I engaged in my fair share of shitty behaviour on that day iirc, specifically when it came to assuming you were a middle-class college-educated douchebag. But I'm voicing a general grievance, not just with you, not just with the board, but with WOKE WHITE PEOPLE in general. I hope you fuckers listen instead of getting offended or all up in your feelings. There isn't anything wrong about viewing things systemically. But Ethan, you have blindspots. In relation to my assholery above, understand that I am working class, I grew up dirt poor, we didn't have a car, a TV, a landline, any of these things when I was growing up. Our kitchen ceiling caved in and we didn't have the money to repair it. I live in the industrial north of England in a town that is the suicide capital of the country, and more specifically in a neighbourhood which is helpfully described by our local newspaper below: I don't need schooling on how these people think. I am one. I don't need you accusing me of being an elitist when I talk about them, or myself, or the working class in general. That's what started that whole thing. Right? You can view your racist plumber one way. Understand that I would always view him differently. Always. And vice-versa. So, to bring it back to Trump, it wasn't some shocking news to me that the primary factor in his success was racism. I said that's what it was. You didn't want to see it. Neither did dr one. I think a lot of people on this board don't want to see that shit. The vast majority of white people are racist to the fucking core. The ones that aren't racist are oblivious to the extent of racism in general. You guys don't see it. You just don't. It doesn't surprise me that, when given the choice of an openly racist candidate for the first time in decades, white people went to bat for him. White people, of every economic background. Instead of talking about that, instead of actually confronting it, what you guys, all of you guys, what you guys do is deflect and talk about either systemic racism, or, in that particular case, how it was all Hilary's fault. You'll talk shit about centricism. Bernie Sanders could have saved us! My response to that is always going to get agitated and tell you guys to go fuck yourselves. I don't often speak clearly. I'm not articulate. Remember when you called me an elitist? Motherfucker, I've not been in schooling since the age of eleven, and I work minimum wage. I dunno what kind of elitist dick you think I'm stroking, shit. In other areas where we differ, lets break it down: Centrism: I'm going to dedicate this paragraph to my man @Lights: Living at the very bottom of the income scale, I know what incrementalism or centrism or whatever bogeyman you want to call it, I know what those things have done. Which is to say my mum went from working three jobs morning till night to earn £400 a month to earning three times that while working under 40 hours a week under Tony Blair's government. My neighbourhood went from deeply unsafe to a place you could actually walk through without being literally assaulted. Neither my mum nor I have had a break-in since 1993! That's pretty good. I'm not blind to the shitty elements of that particular government. It's very easy for some people to say "Well, you know, they're all the same, really". It's an academic thought experiment where Hilary Clinton is basically almost as bad for the lower classes as Donald Trump. In actually, when you're living right on the edge, even a tokenistic gesture could save your life. The Elites: Here is a point I've made on this thread before. I don't fear the elites. When I was assaulted in the street, it wasn't by a banker. When my mum was raped, it wasn't by a politician. I don't think billionaire CEOs have sprayed racist graffiti outside my house or intentionally make their dogs shit on my doorstep at least once a week. I understand I am exploited. But the elites have also endeavoured to keep me safe. I might not be saying this if I was an American, I don't know. I can tell you that there's a reason why political correctness is called political correctness and there's a reason why so many people, in particular the lower-classes are resentful of it*: It came down from on high. Multiculturalism in this country was championed by the elites. It was a useful tool for the end-goal of post-war economic reconstruction. It was never accepted by the white masses. I have never been able to feel anything other than a guest in the country I was born in. Not that my family had any choice but to come here. And the work we carried out for the British Empire for over a century doesn't count for shit. But in the eyes of our capitalist overlords, I actually am British, I have the same rights as the white people of this country, and more than that, I am afforded protection against them through anti-discrimination laws. Don't tell me racism is a bi-product of capitalism. You don't know what you're talking about. Pasting some theory about racial discrimination as a relatively modern concept is just... on its face, this is clearly wrong. The old testament is a book about genetic and racial superiority that supports the genocide and slavery of other races. I don't deny the existence of race-blind cultures in history. But I don't believe that had anything to do with their system of governance. I think this is a key difference between us. You seem to think that a better system would produce a better mindset in people, that if we get rid of hierarchies on a systemic level, they would cease to exist on a personal level. I think the opposite. Cultural revolution is step one. I truly believe that you would have single-payer healthcare if it wasn't for racism. The spectre of the Welfare Queen has been successfully trotted out for the better part of a century. It's why the tea party movement had the massive success it did. Greater than any comparable modern movement on the left. If you think you can somehow pivot to a socialist, collectivist society when the majority of white people would rather die through a lack of affordable healthcare than have their tax dollars got a black family, then I dunno what to tell you. To backtrack a little, I have seniority over my white colleague who used the N word and tells me how brown people are stupid, but I've never said shit to him or to my boss because there's a separate and parallel hierarchical system that exists independently of capitalism. That it's exploited by the feared elites is not in dispute. White people are better than me. That's a truth I've internalised, and it has done me more damage than being poor has. Like, I am every bit as abrasive IRL as I am on here. But I've never spoken out when someone's gone all racist, not once. I said to you, on this thread, that you seem to blame everything on the elites. You, perhaps jokingly, responded that that's because everything is their fault. When you talk about the White Working Class it's like you infantalise them and make excuses for their ignorance. You say that what is needed is education. This doesn't wash. We live in the information age, for fucks sake. If you remain ignorant it's because you have chosen to do so. Because it's convenient to do so. I know them feels. I was ignorant about the prevalence of sexual harassment until my mid-twenties. It took a woman to say, "Something like this happens multiple times a day. Daily." for it to hit. But women have always been saying it. It was easier to keep one eye closed. If not education, you say what is needed is outreach. Who's going to do that? Certainly not actual black people because we've seen what the mere sight of a black person does to a white person's concept of socialist action. White allies? I don't believe in allies. And I don't believe in you. In the past year of trying to talk about race, it's like you're unable to see the problem. And you don't seem to grock how offensive it is, how offensive you come across, when your systemic arguments read like excuses for shitty mindsets. Your plumber has plenty of advocates, as did the poor impoverished coal miners of the midwest, but the decline of the automotive industry which practically destroyed an entire city didn't spark any sort of grassroots socialist movement. White people only became woke when they realised that they were the first generation to be worse of than the previous one. Before this? I was lectured about how great passive resistance was, white people acted like the civil rights movement was won by Martin Luthor King giving a few speeches. Now all y'all advocating burning shit to the ground. Shit's given me whiplash. On the subject of the masses, of democracy, about all that shit. I will say this. If white people in this country were given the option, I would be deported or at least demoted to a second class citizen. I'm acutely aware of this. I have a very high opinion of politicians in the UK in general. My faith in the general population is considerably lower. You don't want to know my opinion on the jury system. But, you know, that comes from actually going through the legal system. Okay I'm bored of this post now. Call out culture my ass, Ethan, if you don't want to be called out for saying dumb shit, then shut the fuck up. Know the value of listening to people. Ask questions instead of presenting dumbass theories. I shouldn't have to be repeating all this shit to get through to you. *I'm going to point out that lower-income white people are forced to interact with non-whites in a way that wealthier white people aren't. This is where a lot of the resentment comes from. Wealthier white people preach to them how they should speak, and what they're not allowed to say, and yet would never be put in the same situations themselves.
  4. I think reaching out to bigots was part of Ethan's philosophy iirc. Whereas the funny thing about actually being a minority or a woman is that reaching out is your default state, as is apologising, and the worst one, which is feeling gratitude when someone actually views you as a human being. And yet, here we are.
  5. I don't want to change anyone's mind, I just want them to shut the fuck up and stop theorising intellectually about abstract concepts such as sexual abuse of which they have no lived experience. Stroke your chins somewhere else my dudes.
  6. My favourite thing is listening to brocialists brosplain racism and how sexual assault is actually unpaid labour, really, if you think about it.
  7. Since I'm tucking in, I'd like to remind Magnets that I'm still waiting for his board resignation. What a despicable fucking piece of shit that guy is.
  8. btw, I'm going to need the white dumbasses on this board to shut the fuck up with their bullshit wrt the election, or at least apologise to me for being such idiotic cunts the day Trump won. You motherfuckers know who you are.
  9. https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/12/15/16781222/trump-racism-economic-anxiety-study Hmmm...
  10. Men Are Trash: The Megathread

    This whole article is fucking horrifying.
  11. Consider this a reply to @ant man bee who also quoted me. I'm still trying to figure this out. First, abortion: I was thinking quite a bit about abortion specifically in the run-up to the election, especially in regards to some comments people have made recently. One person on here mentioned to old, "Voting against their own interests", Chad has been painting a very clear picture of a group of people who believe that they are under siege, that their way of life is under siege, and finally, the conversation that was had regarding Dougie being republican-lite, and how dems feel that is the only way to win. That's why I said in my post that it was a game, a trap, something republicans have been using since Reagan at least. I think we have to acknowledge that a decent percentage of people vote for republicans begrudgingly, as begrudgingly as Chad voted for Dougie*. They're not in favour of the GOP basically dismantling the state and disenfranchising anyone who earns less than a hundred thousand per annum. They just feel that life begins at conception, and a society that condones the murder of that life is morally abhorrent. I can get that. I don't think it's unwinnable. Republicans have quite successfully made it a MAJOR, IMPORTANT issue, and the Democrats have fallen into the trap of responding in kind. Which isn't to say that reproductive rights aren't important, OBVIOUSLY. But the point could be made that voting GOP isn't going to stop abortion. It hasn't yet. It hasn't for half a century. Yes, they're making it more difficult and putting lives at risk as a result. Perhaps that should be mentioned, perhaps the consequences of shutting down Planned Parenthood should be highlighted. Instead of outlining the actual realistic scenarios of policy, Democrats talk in abstracts and ideals - rights, choice, etc. I think it's the wrong wording. Religious people hear that and think they're talking about the right to fucking murder, they don't understand that it's often about saving lives. Perhaps the focus should be on the fact that republicans don't give a shit about life once it leaves the womb and will gladly let babies fucking die rather than provide any kind of assistance. I don't know. Would that be a compelling argument? But on the topic of abortion, on the topic of religiosity, like.. What is it that makes black voters different from white voters? It's not religion. Maybe it's the kind of religion, the way it's expressed? Is there a big racial divide in viewpoints regarding abortion? Do religious black people in the south not believe that their lifestyle is under siege, that they're being mocked by elites, or any of that stuff? If not, why not? Like, could there be a really useful answer here? Like if they are motivated to vote based on OTHER FACTORS, then could that not also be the case for the yts? You mention white supremecism here, and.. like, is that really it? From my limited viewpoint it looks like using explicit racism as a catalyst for votes is a relatively new trend in the republican party. I mean the institutionalised racism runs deep, don't get me wrong, but these programmes of disenfranchisement have always been achieved through.. Like, Nixon talked about a war on drugs. He didn't talk about a war on black people and communists, even though that's what it was actually designed to be. Right? Trump explicitly talks about banning Muslims from coming into the country and how Mexicans are mostly criminals and rapists. That stuff was fucking shocking to hear, even though most of us were already aware of how profoundly fucking racist America is as a country. I don't believe that, on an institutional level, democrats are any less racist than republicans. Bill Clinton was elected shortly after the LA riots. He didn't do shit. Obama was in office when Black Lives Matter flared up. There are concrete laws that could be passed to, at the very least, curb the murder of black civilians by police officers. The democrats have never once even pushed for them that I am aware of. When I saw the racial breakdown of people who voted for Trump, I was like, "Well, shit I'm not surprised at all". At all. I don't trust white people. But, and I might be ignorant here, I don't think Ron Moore is anywhere near as explicitly racist as Trump, islamophobia aside? So what's really going on? And Ant Man, like, what specifically about that cowboy shit you talk about appeals to white people at the expense of appealing to black people? I dunno I'm still think emoji about all this. White and black people seem to be living in two completely different Americas. *Man, you know what they're doing here, right? It's like when you want HBO so you gotta get cable with ten million other fuckin channels that you'll never watch.
  12. It blows my mind that Moore can continue to pretend to be a Devout and Deeply Religious Man throughout all this. I just read his quotes on election night, where he quoted Psalms. I'd be fucking furious if I was Christian, myself. I think much has been made of THE CULTURE WARS (which, really, is just playing into a game of distraction the Republicans have been playing since Reagan at least), but I think it's really interesting that the black community, despite having equally strong ties to Christianity, never actually vote for these shitbags.
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