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shakes

thread for when musicians say stupid things

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I read it, and of course he's right but just face it, there's so much music out there that people can't, don't and won't read 10 pages about each individual album. We want quick scores, lists and the like so we can find the things that interest us most, faster.

 

And also, for someone who lists one of the items as (paraphrasing here, not going back there) Name Dropping or Tokenism or something, he sure does a lot of name-dropping of obscurities.

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none of his points are bad but ffs, its just for fun dude. i always dig reading what musicians have to say about their favorite music. he even admits his definition of favorite can vary from day to day, so pick todays 13 albums, write 13 things and mve on. spare us the thesis statement

 

at least he waited till #3 to drop the racist/sexist card

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I liked the Drew Daniel article.  Obviously I didn't agree with most of it, but it was thought provoking, and it would take quite a bit of thought to properly contest his points.  I don't think it was pretentious, especially, apart from the last point where he goes off the rails a little bit about linear orders being male - I could take his line of thinking and say it's reinforcing stereotypes.  Some of the points were also more personal rather than aimed at the act of expressing a value judgment of music in general (though most of them were of the latter sort).  Really he expresses the challenges one would face in codifying an aesthetics of music, with a skeptical attitude; to truly refute it, one would have to present him with a persuasive codification of the aesthetics of music, and reasons for why one would even want to have such a thing.

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Some things, like metal, folk, and rap are tokenized because the genres themselves are tokens, set by a list of criteria that is more white and male than any white male, representing itself as phallicly as anything can.

Instead of creating a culture afraid of ranking we should be clear about what is good and what isnt and stop being wimps about telling ppl they should do something else with their lives

Etc

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Some things, like metal, folk, and rap are tokenized because the genres themselves are tokens, set by a list of criteria that is more white and male than any white male, representing itself as phallicly as anything can.

what

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For people who found Drew Daniel's article TLDR I found this to be the substance of each of his points:

 

1. I can't talk about my favourite songs because I'd be contributing to a part of culture I dislike (one of people putting on airs)

2. I doubt that it makes sense to say something is your favourite song

3. I can't talk about my favourite songs because I'd be contributing to a part of culture I dislike (one of people getting more attention because they're white men)

4. I can't talk about my favourite songs because I'd be contributing to a part of culture I dislike (one of people getting more attention because they're white men, apart from superficial token choices)

5. I can't talk about my favourite songs because I know these people personally, or might run into them or even work with them, and I'm not comfortable dehumanising them by putting their work in a list

6. Saying you have a favourite song of all time is disingenuous because your tastes keep changing, even what you want music to do for you keeps changing

7. I don't want to talk about my favourite records because I think they're kind of boring/unremarkable, compared with what people expect "favourite music" to be like; this also ties in with point one because I think people put on airs about what they like the most because what they really listen to is too boring

8. Listing my favourite music, indeed saying any music is better than any others, would be an inadequate way to convey my whims and feelings about those records

9. I don't want to talk about my favourite records because I find they don't tie in with my "most listened" records which makes me doubt my own honesty; I also don't want to contribute because I feel other people are being dishonest too

10. Having favourite artists/albums/songs inhibits one from having new favourites later on, especially new music; I fear that broadcasting favourites would inhibit me, and perhaps contribute to a lack of diversity in tastes

11. Lists of favourite songs are a way for the music industry and the free press to con you out of your hard-earned free time and cash; I don't wish to contribute to this rip-off

12. We do not experience music in the same way, and the qualities of our favourite songs are (often?) inexorably tied to how we experience them and the context of listening, so it is senseless to list songs for recommendation purposes

13. The use of linear orders in ranking or rating music adds a false air of objectivity to an inherently subjective experience

 

I sympathise with him on a lot of these points (2, 6-10, 12) even though I don't really agree with any of them.  And yet I'm big on ratings and lists, as ambiguous and vague as they are, and don't think they're as harmful as he seems to make out.  But then he's Matmos and I'm nobody; hundreds of people would actually listen to what he would suggest, so maybe he felt some sense of moral responsibility.

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It is nice to read anything that suggests transformations in culture that would enhance the nature of people and therefore the nature of art as well.  I like reason 12 most of all as it suggests that discussing taste in art doesn't actually engage the real people having the discussion or whoever are two sides of the method of sharing the taste discussion.  ^_^   

(Art doesn't stand still, and we aren't standing still as we encounter it)

 

I think the truth he is getting at is that many people don't really want to have abstract discussions so they choose to have concrete discussions: no matter how much that can quantify. trivialize and distort the reality of what's being discussed, at least it doesn't become an abstract discussion... :unsure:^_^

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I don't think any of his points are invalid, or even unreasonable. it just doesn't seem as though he derives any sort of actual pleasure out of consuming music, the way he tortures over each of those reasons in that piece. that could be completely untrue

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Some of the stuff about using a list to 'project your brand' is fair enough - but y'know, human beings - what can you do?!?! KILL THE BAD ONES THAT'S WHAT.

You enjoy records to a different degree dependent on all sorts of external factors. Great thought DD! He's got a point there when you think about it.

The political shit is the same old one-track bollocks doubtless but, ends justify the means. Let's dream here -if activists like him keep chipping away at the stultifying white male dadrockracy then maybe we'll begin to see the airwaves and charts opening up to admit a few black people or women or even young people here or there. What a breath of fresh air that would be.

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been thinkin about that stupid matmos fucker a lot today

 

I guess what I find so unpleasant about the whole thing is that it seems the point he's trying to make, within his first few items at least, is that naming a few of your favorite records is morally objectionable and/or intellectually dishonest, and that is ludicrous. 

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